Week 4 and 5

Hey everyone, Rachelle here- I'm excited to finally join & see what's going on. You all have some great stuff already. I've read thru all the other weeks but just planned on jumping in here where your at now. Don't think I have time to catch up on a month of homework.
Wow i picked a heavy week to join though.

My take always from the podcasts were:
-Emotions don't tell time. Limiting beliefs stick around until delt with. Discomfort in my body should be heeded.
-We will never surpass the ceiling we've made for ourselves. Even if it was subconsciously made. BUT our ceilings can be changed.
- our physical bodies can help us know what exists in our subconscious.
-There are times when you must have community that can point out your blind spots. A well lived life is surrounded with community.

2 Questions from the podcast:
1) Does this only work for intuitive people? What if you can't sense the voice or issue? Sometimes we are so blind we don't know who to ask for help with what. We just know we are banging out head against a wall. What do you do then? How do you get traction?

2) sometimes a "gut check" keeps us from going the wrong way. How do you tell the difference between a "lack of peace" and a "limiting belief"?

My take away from the brochure & worksheet:
-I am the only one I can control. I can reframe circumstances so that I am in control. I don't have to be blown about by circumstance that frustrate me. This would link to not being a victim, empowered not disempowered.
-a good reminder of forgiving those I judge. And to see myself as fallen short as well.

My questions from the brochure & worksheet:
1) reality is not my God. I believe there are firm truths that are true dispite what my reality looks like. (Faith in the unseen) SO: how do I cling to faith yet be at peace with the uncertainties and contradictions around me?

2) if our limiting beliefs help form our realities, we change them because we want to conform to a "should look like" perception. What's the line in having high expectations for yourself and simply accepting reality"?

3) she said "And if you practice (living in your own buisness) it for a while, you may come to see that you don’t have any business either and that your life runs perfectly well on its own"
What does that mean? Is it true? Is it a good thing?

Very thought provoking week! Looking forward to seeing what everyone else highlights.

Great questions. My answers are just my own context and opinion. The answers will likely not be satisfactory because this is stuff I'm still working through and the deeper it goes the more it involves nuanced and personal paradigms.  

1. It works for me and I score very low on "knowing self". My personality scores as pretty intuitive to other people - but not very tuned into with my own state. For me the limiting beliefs are very "feeling" and very basic when I try to put words to them. In the reading I've done, most limiting beliefs boil down to a few core types...so if you can't get traction I would hold those things in mind and consider if they are the wall. I will need to do some research to get that list, I don't remember it off the top of my head.

Doing judge your neighbor worksheets also show some limiting beliefs that you may have. 

I also think talking with someone you trust about your feelings can expose things if the person is patient, loving and asks questions to help you explore (without trying to "fix" you). Most of the people on this board may be inclined to choose a peer because that would be the least risk and easiest to trust - I find normally that isn't helpful because they are likely lost in the same thing. Reach up to people who have taken ground our at least identified the battles a bit more than someone that is a peer. Bad advice on issues like this can often be worse than no advice...one of the reasons I want to make it clear that this post is just my own journey and opinion.  

2) Paired with your first question - I'm not sure. I think if you recognize the gut check and "test it" the answer will reveal itself as a wisdom or a fear issue. I think good gut checks aren't fearful...but learning to identify fear and wisdom is a skill. Prayer helps as well.



There is a real tension here that has been a struggle with anyone that has faith throughout time. The normal term for it is "cognitive dissonance." This is happen when what one experiences in "reality" feels or is different than what one believes to be the "correct" or "true" thing to experience.

When the two don't mesh - it causes cognitive dissonance, suffering and forces a reformation of what is believed on some level. Often extreme moments of cognitive dissonance forces an entire reframing of ones worldview.

Paul spent many of his letters dealing with this issue in the New Testament...for example...the church that believed Jesus would come back before anyone died. They experienced cognitive dissonance when one of their members died (was he saved?) and Paul ended up writing them a letter building a new paradigm around death and the timing of Jesus's second coming. 

I don't think The Work attempts to argue that reality is God directly (though there is a quote saying it is God because "it" rules...I think that quote is more of a metaphor) - I think it basically argues that reality IS. What you believe about why reality IS and what is yet to come isn't defined...though she strongly argues that it doesn't do you much good to fight what IS (fight the past - what IS is because it has happened).

How are you at peace with an annoying day at work? Do you spend the entire time complaining about it - or do you just recognize that part of your current reality is having to work when you don't feel like it? Different people construct different views of the crappy things in the world.

She argues that you just accept it.

Things that seem/are bad happen and will continue to happen. If we question what has happened then we stop focusing on what can happen in the future and we stop focusing on how what has happened can be a good thing and we stop focusing on how what has happened can be for your benefit. That leads us to suffering because we play "if only" games - both with ourselves (If only I had...), with others (If only this person had...) or with God (If only God had...if only the church had...).

This isn't beneficial. For whatever reason - what happened has happened. God will make it good. Accept it as the reality for that moment in time that needed to happen within the context of God's sovereignty (not to be confused with causation...) and focus on how it will become good, how you can benefit from it, and how you can continue to live and bring life.

The uncertainties and contradictions around you are an outworking of the system that has been built and will ultimately lead to life/truth/goodness. Do your part with yourself - and don't get caught up in other people (or God) doing what you think needs to happen moment by moment. For me it boils down to a pretty simple concept - I do the best with what I have. God's grace covers the things that I might be able to do better but I don't have the ability/knowledge to do so. I never stop growing and being satisfied with the impact that can be made for the expansion of life however...



There is a difference between reality and what we think and do with reality. She is saying much of our suffering and unhappiness comes from how we question and think about reality (especially as it pertains to others/God) - this spectrum of "limiting beliefs" influence us and does form our reality of suffering/unhappiness.

Much of the "good" conforming is living out of hope/faith/life instead of living out of fear/doubt/death.

I think the line is determined by two things. Are you truly living a joy filled life - at your core are you content and ready to be told "well done?" Are you expanding life/goodness/the Kingdom or are you expanding death/evil/fear/doubt?

But again - what I think could be wrong. Thats just how I view it for myself. And even further...when I say "the Kingdom" I may picture something completely different than you do.  

To go further on this distinction between "accepting reality" and continued personal growth...

Here is where she distinguishes the concept of our view of outward reality vs our responsibility of changing ourselves. (Which often is 90% about stopping the judgement of others).

Brackets are my own additions. Italics are mine.

"If you begin by pointing the finger of blame outward,
then the focus isn’t on you. You can just let loose and
be uncensored. We’re often quite sure about what other
people need to do, how they should live, whom they
should be with. We have 20/20 vision about others, but
not about ourselves.

When you do The Work, you see who you are by seeing
who you think other people are. Eventually you come to
see that everything outside you is a reflection of your own
thinking.

You are the storyteller, the projector of all stories,
and the world is the projected image of your thoughts.
Since the beginning of time, people have been trying to
change the world so that they can be happy. This hasn’t
ever worked, because it approaches the problem backward.
What The Work gives us is a way to change the projector— [ourselves - our mind]
mind—rather than the projected. It’s like when there’s a
piece of lint on a projector’s lens. We think there’s a flaw
on the screen, and we try to change this person and that
person, whomever the flaw appears to be on next. But it’s
futile to try to change the projected images. Once we realize
where the lint is, we can clear the lens itself. [the lint is within ourselves] This is the end
of suffering, and the beginning of a little joy in paradise."


I think she would say that once we truly realize the above and stop functioning in such a way that attempts to change the projected (reality) within ourselves - we will automatically find an immense degree of freedom/life because we can start loving others and be content in our circumstances and a ton of "suffering" and stress caused by the above will be lifted. This gives us the capacity to continue changing the high expectations of ourselves...though I would argue...most high expectations we have of ourselves seems to stems back to how we interact with and love those around us and how we live with joy day to day - regardless of the circumstances. 

One last thing - the reality of the moment is that God is pleased with who I am at this moment. Despite the things in my reality that spit in His face. Once I accept that reality - then moving forward with growth is a natural outworking of His kindness leading to repentance...rather than my own self judgement leading to change. 

In summary on this point - I don't think she is saying self change/growth is bad as all. She is advocating it. She is just giving a strong starting point to begin the journey: Stop playing if only games of judgement on others, yourself and God. Accept what has happened as part of the system that will bring about full goodness and life. Trust that things work out for good. Stay focused on your business and limit expectations that are outside your business because that will take you back to "if only" traps.  

Finally - this awesome video throws another element into the mix that is pretty crucial imo (from a Christian/Kingdom perspective). Highly highly recommend it.





I don't know. This seems very Buddhist (as does some of her other stuff)...I contexualize it into the realization that it is false suffering to try to save ourselves with our own actions. (See above video). Lasting change happens when you realize God's mercy and grace and rest in it and are motivated to holiness out of a response to Gods love...not when you work things out on your own strength...which leads to pride, judgement of others a loss of peace and an ultimate place of dissatisfaction with reality (because there are always things around you that you can't control...).

5 of your own...but you don't have to share.

My takeaways from the first podcast are emotions buried alive never die and to truly be successful you need to let go of a identity of being a failure and any doubts in yourself.

This has been an intense couple of weeks, but amazing at the same time.

My takeaways from the audios:

1.) What you subconsciously believe will directly impact how you consciously act.
2.) Your subconscious beliefs can be changed.
3.) Your physical body can speak to you of your subconscious beliefs, you need only to learn to listen.

From the reading and worksheet:

1.) Getting in "other business" only hurts my capacity for joy. This made me think of the sayings like "forgiving someone is like opening a cage and realizing you were the prisoner." It really is crazy how judging people's actions poisons your ability to be free.
2.) I am a hypocrite. Judge not less you be judged. But seriously. It seemed like everything in the worksheet that I said of another person, I could find somewhere, if only a very small amount, in my self. It was a good conviction session. Stay tuned for new growth.

My questions get a little more complicated....

1.) When you're listening for the opposite to the limiting belief (the truth that trumps the lie), what happens when you can't hear it? In other words, you know your limiting belief, it jumped out at you and is staring you in the face. But the opposite truth hasn't come from anywhere. Yes, you might be able to think of "logically" opposite truths, but nothing that -feels- right, nothing that trumps the lie. What then? Do you (I, obviously) need to talk it through with someone? Do I need to keep working on it? Pray about it? What's next?

2.) So, I get that you need to stay out of other peoples' business and I get that you need to stay out of God's business, and I get that whatever happens happens, and I get that we need to take life as it comes and not get caught up in the chains of "if only."
But what about prayer? The Bible tells us to ask when we are in need and to have faith. Taking healing, for example. Here is something, where to a degree, I am in my Father's business- or at least, I am asking Him to be in mine. I am to have faith that this prayer for healing will indeed heal the person I'm praying for. God's cool like that. I also understand that if the person is not healed, that does not change my faith. For I had faith that God is good and He will do what is good, so whether or not the person is healed, that is still true. But I also had faith that the person could/would be healed, otherwise I wouldn't have asked... but judging God when he doesn't heal- that is getting into God's business. And yet I'm still supposed to ask for healing (and take authority for healing) whether or not I see physical results.
I guess, as I'm typing this out, I kind of know the answer to my own question. But I have a hard time finding the balance between having faith for something specifically and not being in God's business... It's all muddled in my head (and probably in this post too). Hope that all made sense, though.

over and out,
-JoJo

Both of these are great questions!
I think in the case of raising children, the lines are blurry. As a parent, my children's business is my business. That is totally true for a newborn, and gradually less and less true until my children are adults. But there is always a sense of, my family's business is my business. The key is recognizing that children are truly unique individuals, and it is not the parent's responsibility to control. The parent is there to mentor, but always with respect and with an eye to the child's unique design and bent. 

It is a challenge though! For me there is a constant dialogue of what my kids "should" do, which they are not doing. In the midst of that constant chatter I have found three tools most helpful. 

1. my goal is to connect, not to control. Keeping the goal of connection ever present helps me release the impulse to control.
2. learning boundaries. This has to do with appropriate consequences when my child does make poor choices. I let the consequences teach cause and effect, but I don't emotionally punish by withdrawing love, shaming, etc... If I cannot keep my love "on" toward my child even when he/or she is misbehaving, than I've moved out of my business and into theirs and I am attempting to control their behavior through fear or shame.
3. Finally, I have to take responsibility for myself. Period. All parents have baggage.... all people have baggage. My junk impacts my parenting. It is my job to stick to my business by dealing with MY junk!!! In fact, often my children's "issues" are basically a reflection of my own!!! Remember the Judging your Neighbor worksheet..... This kid should ______________. Underneath that is usually some junk I am believing about myself! Or if the child is being controlling of others, for example; where am I modeling that behavior myself? When I take responsibility and actually do the work to deal with my own junk, there is far less to deal with in my children.

The fact is, when I take responsibility for my business, I simply do not have the energy or inclination remaining to move into "fix it" mode with others, including my children. Truly living present to myself and owning my own junk is more than enough. A quote that has really changed the way I view parenting is: "Love empowers obediance." Intimidating, shaming, controlling.... all of which stem from sticking your nose in your kid's business inappropriately, cannot coexist with LOVE. 

Lydia said: "1.) When you're listening for the opposite to the limiting belief (the truth that trumps the lie), what happens when you can't hear it? In other words, you know your limiting belief, it jumped out at you and is staring you in the face. But the opposite truth hasn't come from anywhere. Yes, you might be able to think of "logically" opposite truths, but nothing that -feels- right, nothing that trumps the lie. What then? Do you (I, obviously) need to talk it through with someone? Do I need to keep working on it? Pray about it? What's next?"

This is challenging. I would really like to know how Dane Maxwell would respond to this.

I know that sometimes the pain of the limiting belief is deep enough it can overwhelm our ability to stay "tuned in". If we can work with someone else who is not overwhelmed by our pain, their hope and even their joy in our process can be enough to enable us to stay with the process. I think this may be what happened on the recording, Dane paused just to let Don receive the support and encouragement of others, and that helped him keep pressing in.

And personally, I have encountered a few lies that I've had to live with for a while. And this was actually a gift because over those few days or so I was able to see the impact of the lie more fully, the ripple effect and how it permeated more than I'd realized. But after it had "ripened" I was able to connect with the truth. It just took a little longer. Journaling is usually very helpful for me in this situation.

It is really good to recognize the difference between "logically" answering vs receiving or uncovering truth in your core. They are two very different things! And I really encourage you to keep pressing in. It seems to me that the process gets easier and easier the more we embrace it.

That said, this leads me to a question in my face which I've wrestled with repeatedly.

I have been able to deal with several limiting beliefs, legitimacy lies, deep seated bitter roots, and I've been able to hear the truth and have seen much transformation in my personal life. But I have encountered a few people who simply cannot seem to ever get to the other side. They can see, feel, recognize the lie. But no other possibility or reality ever breaks through emotionally. What about these people? I watch them choose to live as though they are loved and accepted, and that has to count for something! But how is that fundamental inability to receive love or affirmation at their core level overcome?

Huge take aways. My challenge is to be direct and concise.

Limiting beliefs. The way Dean is working with body sensations is great! I have read the book, Feelings Buried Alive Never Die, and the author catalogs what kind of emotions land in different parts of the body. But she never went on to give the reader the kind of tools Dean is giving. Love it!

The Work. Again, another great tool. The new aspect for me is the questions to pivot. Turning the judgement around with the questions is so powerful, and can be incredibly insightful into your own inner world. Love it too.

That said, I have more than just a couple questions. These come to me in the context of at least a decade long running conversation. As I've spent a lot of time this week thinking about this I’d like to chime in on the convo Rachelle and Jonathan have begun on this thread.

Jonathan said
There is a real tension here that has been a struggle with anyone that has faith throughout time. The normal term for it is "cognitive dissonance." This is happen when what one experiences in "reality" feels or is different than what one believes to be the "correct" or "true" thing to experience.
When the two don't mesh - it causes cognitive dissonance, suffering and forces a reformation of what is believed on some level. Often extreme moments of cognitive dissonance forces an entire re-framing of ones worldview."

It seems to me that Western Christianity is entrenched in a “Fear, Shame, Control” construct. There is a belief that people need to change their behavior, and the primary tools to motivate people to change are fear, shame and control.

I also believe the primary approach to parenting for my generation was the same. To get kids to be good we have to motivate with fear, and if they don’t change enough because of fear, then we shame or control them into the behavior we desire. In fact when I was a child, whenever a kid did something a little out of line the adult response was often, “Shame on you!” Not just from parents, but any adult in the vicinity somehow felt authorized to chime in with those words.

Fear, shame and control are extremely powerful!!! But they DO NOT express the nature or the heart of Father God! The Scripture says, “Perfect LOVE cast out fear”. If I experience fear in any place, it is because I haven’t yet experienced God’s love in that place. Period. (I think the video Jonathan posted did a good job exploring this).

I did not experience much cognitive dissonance with Dean’s audios. The work he did is very similar to “theophostic” except that he is asking the person’s own body what it wants to reveal, rather than asking Jesus what he wants the person to know. This works well for me because I believe it is the person’s human spirit giving the body a voice. And I believe the human spirit is very likely to know what the person’s soul does not know. Bottom line, this seems to be a very powerful tool to deal with many of the limiting beliefs we carry.

I had more cognitive dissonance with the Work. Suspending the dissonance I was able to take the tool at face value and apply it effectively. As I said earlier, turning the thought around is incredibly powerful.

BUT. My question is, where is Jesus and our need for atonement? These tools can be compatible with Christianity because neither are a complete worldview, at least on the face of it. Neither answers all seven questions (Universe Next Door). The Work touches on more, and feels like she could certainly move into Buddhism, but it is left open enough that you can lay it over Christianity without direct contradictions. But there are holes. By the same token, the tools could lay over Buddhism w/o contradictions….

There is a fundamental difference in beginning with God vs beginning with man. The theology I have of the human spirit says God created our spirits out of His own light, before the foundation of the world. And that when He created each of our human spirits He “preloaded” our software with the data we would need for our own unique life on this earth. But that “data” is in the form of potential and as we live and grow we partner with Him to unpack the potential with which we are designed, and hopefully we grow into our full design and birthright. Many people do not. But we all have the capacity and ability to.

This is a working theology, and it really does seem to resonate deeply and to match life. It works. But it doesn't answer the question of what happened at the Fall. What state is a person’s God-given, human spirit in when they are conceived and then born? Obviously we are all impacted by the fall…. “all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.” All is all. But does a pre-believer have a human spirit full of light? Obviously there are people who are full of darkness and who do incredibly despicable atrocities. But not all pre-believers behave despicably. And it certainly seems to me through observation that a person can unpack much of their data and move into much of their personal design without acknowledging Jesus as their savior. And that many who acknowledge Jesus as their savior tragically never move on to unpack their design and their God-given treasures.

In the Work and other similar teachings, the author deeply resonates with a universe whose core identity is “Love”. This may not be identified as Yahweh or Father God, it may be seen as an impersonal “force” yet with a benevolent nature. I am questioning and pondering and at the same time beginning to settle into this thought. Satan doesn’t love. If someone is bumping up against love and benevolence, they must be experiencing Yahweh in some way. We DO have an enemy…. And often these teachings such as the Work deny there “really” being an enemy. But, then again, outside of time, we don’t have an enemy. Before creation and after the Mellinium the enemy is absent. So it is possible these people are connecting to the Ancient of Days outside of time. Yet, Jesus is the only way to the Father, so I have some pretty serious cognitive dissonance….

I’ve chosen to simply live with the dissonance for now. I trust Father to bring the understanding in His time, but for now it is obvious that all the fear paralyzing my life is not His design. And using these tools, along with some others, is effective in rooting out fears and de-legitimizing beliefs. And in my heart, I see this work as His hand and His grace at work in my life. As each fear is dispelled, my love and intimacy with Father God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit deepens and grows. It is beautiful. I cannot fully be who I truly am without this deep intimacy with my creator. I long for all people to know Him as Yahweh, who has revealed Himself both in Scripture and in our lives. But if someone is growing to know Him as “Love”, what would be gained by my insistence that they overcome their own cognitive dissonance and call Him by the name He has revealed to me?

I am certainly not going to introduce anyone to the God of Love through fear, shame and control. And as long as my inner world is permeated with fear and shame, and I am attempting to control my outside world, including others, what authority do I have to tell someone who has found “love” that they are going to Hell…. The bottom line is that if I really know Yahweh loves me, if I have really found the center of my legitimacy is that God LOVES me, then I should be leading the parade with these kind of tools. I should be teaching the Work myself, I should be alleviating the suffering of others myself by extending to them the same dignity and legitimacy Yahweh has extended to me.

I think you are basically getting what I am saying.
The dissonance is primarily around seeing Christians who should be the "free-est" bound up in fear, and pre-believers walking in a better understanding of Love than most of the church....
The other aspect of the dissonance is around the theology. You may not understand or actually feel the same dissonance I feel there, no big deal. It isn't my place to judge another person's heart, yet I've always had a very clear theology about a person not being "saved" until they acknowledge Jesus as savior. But I see more fruit of salvation in some pre-believers than in some believers.... My theology is getting messed with a little bit and that makes me a little uncomfortable.